Lead generation specialist meaning

Phil Mackie 0:01
Hi, my name is Phil and this is the first episode of office crasher on YouTube. Were talking today about lead generation specialists. And Im joined by Dave. Dave is a lead generation specialist online. Hows it going, Dave?

Dave Cornish 0:16
Really good. Thanks for having me.

Phil Mackie 0:18
Yeah, super happy to chat with you, Dave. And I talk about a lot of things, but some of the things that intersect our digital marketing, freelance careers, and lead generation. So before we start, I have a question for you. How many lead generation gurus does it take to change a light bulb? I dont know. Click here to find out. Right. Its a dumb lead gen job.

But

silliness aside. David, tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into your career life.

Dave Cornish 0:55
Yeah, Ive been doing online lead gen for just over a decade now. I didnt immediately start out in this area. But I originally dove into Google ads and one thing led to another and set it up doing a lot of work for b2c organizations in the past lead gen space.

Phil Mackie 1:16
Super cool. Super cool. So yeah, when I think of a lot of freelancers, and they tell me their story, theres often that moment where they decided they dont want to work in a traditional work environment and really carve a piece off for themselves. We call that the office crasher story. So I have my own office crasher story. And I think you do too. But can you think of a moment in your career where kind of like the floor drops out and youre ready to make things happen on your own terms? Or do you have your own office crusher story you can share with us?

Dave Cornish 1:51
Yeah, pretty much spent my entire childhood teens on the computer. So Id always been comfortable working for a few hours a day or whatnot, mostly playing games, to be honest. But when I got around 20 years old, I was attending university and in the summer, I was working a job and sales. And in the day, I was selling septic tanks. And then at night, I was selling cell phones. And during the day, I won Planet kahwin. And some friends of mine from high school, I believe that were making money online. And so here I was sitting in my kind of boring desk job sales role and and asking these friends what they were doing as an alternative. And they essentially gave me some introductory books on AdWords, Google. Well, yeah, it was called AdWords Back then, I guess. And that made me curious. And I started exploring forms during the day, not only in between sales calls at the septic tank company, actually. And eventually, I just decided is much more exciting world kind of jumping into the wild west of the internet, as opposed to conventional sales jobs. And so once I kind of caught wind of what was possible and what other people I knew are doing online, then it kind of ignited the desire to believe the conventional a tell for a tow five type of job, kind of chart my own path and live and die by my own decisions.

Phil Mackie 3:26
love that. I love that. That was so good. We should record it right? No, thats perfect. Thats exactly what Im talking about. So thank you so much for sharing that with me. Im Dave, when we think about your your lead generation life, what type of clients do you work clients do you work with typically,

Dave Cornish 3:46
a lot of automotive. I mean, theyre caught cross the variety of industries. But what I like about Automotive in particular is its very competitive. Like theres a ton of car dealerships in almost every city in North America and the ad platform, the auctions are very competitive. So youre forced to uplevel your skills as a lead gen expert, like, you really have to develop an understanding of split testing and copywriting. And also staying on the cutting edge of the platform. Because when youre working in an industry with high cost per clicks, then you kind of need every edge that you can get when youre trying to improve the ROI for your clients. So in summary, I just appreciate how it forces you to to grow in your professional development. And when you take those skills, the developed in automotive and apply them to other industries, its been a lot easier, because Im already kind of familiar. I mean, Im by no means advanced. Id call myself intermediate, but Im familiar enough with the platform that when I go into something thats less competitive, its not as big of a battle to find traction for the clients there. So I work in other industries like moving companies or real estate property management. Like theres been a lot over the decade, but even to the present day, its a lot of automotive. And

Phil Mackie 5:13
thats awesome. Automotive sounds like a high stakes game and you like you like the investment required to have a high stakes game and youre like, I can use the skills elsewhere. So I think thats awesome.

Dave Cornish 5:24
Yeah, thanks.

Phil Mackie 5:26
And then like, when we think of an average workday for you, I know this is tough, because not all I mean, average, were using air quotes, because were also business owner. So theres a degree of variability here, but describe an average workday for Dave.

Dave Cornish 5:44
Um, yeah, I like to start my day. I dont like how nuanced you want me to get into

Phil Mackie 5:52
a you can be general, just uh, yeah, you can. I just want to expose the listener to the different ways that us freelancers lived. So would you say your lifestyle super regimented? Or what would you if you could give us a sense of it?

Dave Cornish 6:12
Yeah, I kind of take a hybrid approach, like I need some structure, I realize over the years, like thats another thing about working for yourself and working from home is that without the boss figure there, you really have to kind of sink or swim by your own decision. So some things have taken me a lot longer to figure out than I would have wanted them to, like in terms of how I need to plan my days, or set goals or actually show up and be able to execute with consistent energy levels and make more consistent progress instead of trying to stake success or failure on some big dramatic push. So thats something especially lately, Im trying to grasp more as a consistency and towards that objective, one of the things Im doing now is getting out of bed much earlier than I used to, like Im up at five now I like to start my day is like slowly giving my mind a chance to kind of get into the swing of things ease into things as opposed to previous years where Id kind of roll out of bed later and try and jump right into work. But I find like, taking time in the early morning, when your brain is still fresh and clear to do a lot of your higher level strategies ization makes the various tactics you work on throughout the day. A lot more. I dont know I dont focus is the right word. Like, theres a tendency in our industry to focus too much on tactical advice. But the strategic thinking Im fine is what really counts. And that type of thinking, for me anyways is best done earlier in the morning, even taking time to think on paper, as opposed to immediately jumping into the technology. Because nowadays, like theres so many amazing technological tools and tactics and gurus, you can follow a lot of amazing people out there, but it doesnt matter at all any of that stuff until you get like a firm strategic grounding, and, and youre able to think well off the technology to strategize your campaigns. So please, thats awesome.

Phil Mackie 8:17
So you think on average, you want and learning just parts that you said, because I think theres a lot there. But I think it was cool that you said you like to do your strategy in the morning, after youve given yourself adequate time to get started and get moving. And thats even before you log in and look at all the digital distractions and tools and resources. So okay, thats awesome. Um,

Dave Cornish 8:46
and I can elaborate on that a little more.

Phil Mackie 8:49
Yeah, go for

Dave Cornish 8:49
it. Yeah, its one of the most important things Im learning and trying to imply. So maybe other people find value in it as well, like, Id say more people are waking up to the fact that attention is our scarce most scarce commodity, right. So whether you want to be a lead gen consultant, or a web designer or a software engineer, it doesnt matter like mastering your attention is the fundamental skill I believe we should all work on before we even attempt anything tactical, because as long as you can connect with your own intuition and your own attention, youll be able to absorb the tactics at a much faster pace and be able to roll out tests faster anyways, because thats another secret of the industry at large, I think is the companies or the consultants that test the fastest or thats usually correlated with the level of success youre going to reach. Because its too hard to think through a tactic and spend all day in your mind and imagining how it should be implemented. versus doing small incremental testing much faster because you have the right strategy in place.

Phil Mackie 9:58
I love that. Youre like you got it. test in the real, not in these mental constructs, right? And you have to have a good morning to be able to strategize how to test instead of these mental constructs. Yeah, Dave and I are prone to have a lot of philosophical talk. So I think that was all positive stuff. And thanks for sharing. We kind of talked about it a little bit. But what do you love or hate about remote work? And I wouldnt worry about the sun. Its okay.

Yeah,

its all good.

Dave Cornish 10:31
Well do I love and hate. I love the freedom. And I hate the freedom. Its like a double edged sword. I mean, its nice that you can structure your day exactly how you wanted. But that was also a big responsibility. And its taken me many years. And Im still working progress on that just trying to figure out what is optimal for you. Because, yeah, you have a total blank canvas and implement any ideas or suggestions on what a daily routine should actually look like and what you should focus on. But, but you need to, again, back to the testing, like, you need to isolate a core set of ideas, or this is what Im doing anyways, and then test them rapidly to figure out what is actually ideal for you as an individual. Because otherwise, I find its just too easy to get bogged down in the minutiae that dont actually generate the results. And so if you want to hear Marvel, lead generation in particular, its things like copywriting, please.

Yeah, so it. I mean, youre asking me about pros and cons and being self employed. I guess Ill add something there before jumping back into lead gen, I think,

Phil Mackie 11:54
yeah, please do.

Dave Cornish 11:56
Like, I think the future of work in general, across many industries, not just digital marketing, or lead gen involves a focus on actual results, as opposed to like, an industrial revolution concept of showing up for a certain number of hours each day and punching in and out. And thats how youre good. Thats how youre delivering value. in this industry, what I like is, you can show up, and youre judged on the quality of your thoughts, not on how many hours you show up, like youre judged on the performance of what it is that you build and implement. And for different people at different stages in their careers, the amount of time invested to execute an identical campaign with success will obviously vary. So I just like the fact that theres a lot of potential for scalability, and living and dying by the quality of, of your ideas. And it kind of is a force that drives you towards continual improvement, as opposed to some types of careers where you dont have that same incentive. Youre just asked to kind of show up, and theres not a lot of room for growth.

Phil Mackie 13:02
And when I hear this, I think I think at one point in your life, youve had these aha moments on campaign performance, and it wasnt about the hours, right, it wasnt about the raw output. But it was rather the strategy that youre talking about, where you married the strategy with the tactic. Right? I agree. I without getting too much into into this is kind of the crux of office Crusher, which is why bears repeating, but its like, obvious crusher is kind of the embrace of this new era. Like you said, its not about raw hours, its about that output. So I love what you just said there and and you even use the word Industrial Revolution, right? Because that is it is an artifact of that time. Right?

Dave Cornish 13:46
Yeah, let me add one more thing to go for. This the work creative works very difficult, at least to me, like coming up with a winning formula in a competitive industry is not a trivial task, usually. And so the thrill of getting a breakthrough is one of the other things thats nice about this type of work, is it because it doesnt happen every day like even, you know, people much more experienced than myself, expert copywriters. Theyll talk about how difficult it is to beat the control even despite their decades of experience and financial success. It doesnt mean anything because the markets always evolving. So you really have to learn to keep your eye on the ball test faster. I mean, I guess one thing I should add to you come if youre a competitive person, by nature, like youre into sports, whatever video games, etc. Like, it is a nice type of career for that type of person that is driven and likes to to win in a sense, but youre still delivering value for the business and society. Its not like a cutthroat type of scenario, but there is still an element of winning and competition. Absolutely.

Phil Mackie 14:57
I mean, thats one of the things that I like about it, right? So, I think youve touched on a lot of really cool topics that Legion touches on. But Tony

about Lead Gen

I think you were gonna talk about the disciplines involved because you kind of tease that point, right? Its not just one thing. Its not just data is good at computer, right? So like, when you think about the skills involved with your lead gen career, try to give us an inventory or you know, just a high level view of kind of what those skills are.

Dave Cornish 15:28
Yeah, so I found like when I first started out working online, again, over a decade ago, I was dabbling in everything because the entire world just seems so bright and shiny, I was running from tactic to tactic found a little bit of traction here and jumped in the next one. And in hindsight, I dont regret that type of mindset I was in at the time, because traveling widely as a beginner is one way you kind of find out what you gravitate towards. So over time, I started to realize a common thread between all of the tactics and all the different ways to make money online, including SEO or affiliate marketing, e commerce or product development, or pay per click. And the one commonality all shared was developing an understanding of copywriting and psychology. And so thats where I would suggest most people begin, even before you decide to specialize solely in lead gen, lets say, or even simultaneously, like youd spend 50% of your time, at least, just studying general copywriting from the greats like Gary Halbert, Gary bencivenga, john Carlton, and theres even some modern people that are kind of carrying the torch from where the original guys left off. Claude Hopkins is another great one, I would suggest people look at scientific advertising,

Phil Mackie 16:51
were gonna put those links in the bottom, by the way, cuz that that was a lot really quick. So thank you for sharing those, by the way, but thats fantastic. So so if I can take what you said. And there, theres, theres this degree of like, human psychology, and I think your sales experience when I think of your office crasher story, right when your sales experience blends into that. And also, theres this written communication element thats often forgotten about in all of this, and its an underlying foundation, to all those make money online type jobs you described.

Dave Cornish 17:28
Yeah, and just to elaborate, the written is important for devising split tests, like youre gonna have written word or video scripting, on your landing pages and in your ads. And thats just going to get the attention of the target audience and convince them to take an action thats going to benefit their lives and benefit the organization youre working for. So its really an amazing superpower, when you develop the ability to research a given market understand where their lives are actually lacking at this point, because everyones searching online when theyre trying to fix a problem that they perceive that they have. And so the company that better understands those problems, which is again, a part of copywriting research, I would say, and theres a few good methodologies you can learn for that, then it makes your tactics much easier to implement, because you can, tactically you dont even need like a sexy website to convince someone to take an action, if you have the right message that appeals to what that person is actually thinking in their minds and what theyre struggling with. So thats, again, why I would take I think a lot of people, including myself, at one point, we maybe emphasize tactic 80% of the time and market research and copywriting 20% of the time without ratio should actually be inverted. And it should probably even be 5% of the time you focus on tactics, because honestly, theyre a dime a dozen, like you can go on YouTube right now, even in the lead gen space and find a million split test ideas. Not even an exaggeration, probably almost a million

Phil Mackie 19:02
waters move so quickly in that regard, but the strategy stays the same. Thats the thing that night, if you were to take a ratio that 95% would be static, right? Thats the crazy part.

Dave Cornish 19:14
Yeah, cuz if you develop an understanding of copywriting, and you still want to get it and you want to get in lead gen, there are so many people, including free resources from Facebook or Google itself that will teach you how to run an ad at a competent enough level that you can validate your understanding of the market. So yeah, I just placed much less emphasis on the tactics, which are always evolving, like you said, theyre always changing. The platforms always changing, but the human psychology doesnt. So you really want to focus on what doesnt change, you know,

Phil Mackie 19:48
that was a bingo moment right there because I could think about how the platforms have changed the UX in the last three years a number of times and every time I get super cranky, and then I log in again. Figure it out. But if I didnt have the sales Foundation, if you didnt have your sales foundation and your psychology and your copywriting experience, no amount of UX changes, or tips and strategies and stuff, or its tips and tactics would help you. So, um, I think youve kind of teased at it. But our next question would be, whats one thing youd like to share with people who are not in the industry? I feel like, especially in digital, its shrouded in such secrecy, we do feel like were part of a ninja temple or something like that. But really, were just a bunch of guys on the computer, but like, what would you say? What would you like to say to people who are not in the biz?

Dave Cornish 20:43
Well, off the top of my head thinking of advertising in general, I think advertisers sometimes get lumped in with kind of a stereotype of a used car salesmen or something to that effect. And I just point out to people that advertising is fundamentally like salesmanship, which we all engage in, in one form or another, whether youre a doctor, a teacher, or a lawyer, like humans have been persuading other humans to adopt their ideas and take the lead or build relationships since the dawn of time and digital marketing when its done well, ethically, with a focus on delivering value to all parties involved, I believe does actually add value. And its a, its a challenging, worthwhile career, that theres a lot of products out there that are really in products have the potential to make peoples lives better. But if you lack an understanding of how to position your product, and how to put it in front of the right people, it doesnt make as big of an impact as it might otherwise could have. So, and I do share peoples reservations, sometimes Im marketing in certain forms, it can be aggressive, it can be misleading. But I wouldnt let people deter some bad actors from pursuing a career in the industries if they do have a legitimate desire to push products that help people. I know, it sounds kind of cliche, but

Phil Mackie 22:10
thats okay. We can be corny. And yeah, were not all bad guys. And that it isnt necessary necessary thing in our society. And I share your belief that sometimes it gets a little crazy, right. But uh, well, those are the questions that I have. Feel free to add anything else here? I didnt have a spot for more. But what else? Anything else? Before we conclude, Dave?

Dave Cornish 22:45
Trying to think about your last question to if theres,

Phil Mackie 22:48
yeah, to dispel any myths, or any sort of misconceptions.

My really quick, maybe this helped you but my thing is in digital, when I say that I work in digital, everyones getting some the person that sends them the spam emails. Okay. Thats like theres theres a lot more to it than that. So

Dave Cornish 23:15
yeah, I mean, its kind of related, I guess, the mind team.

Phil Mackie 23:23
No problem. So yeah, last less, Im sorry.

Dave Cornish 23:28
Enjoy the work in the field in some ways. But yeah, first society was less dependent on consumption and advertising, I probably wouldnt lose any sleep in the long run either. So its kind of an awkward position, Id have it because Im skeptical of the system. But I also am one of the cogs in the machine. So I guess everyone is

Phil Mackie 23:52
its a big machine. Its a big machine. And you got to figure out how you fit into it, right? And you got to find a way to fit into it in a way that you like living your existence. So you enjoy, you enjoy these digital puzzles that allow you to help customers succeed. And you cant understate the value of that. Right. So thats why lead generation exists. Right. So Dave, thank you so much for talking with me today. You shared a lot of really cool insights and hopefully dispelled some myths about lead generation specialists and what they do. But where can people find you on the internet?

Dave Cornish 24:28
Yeah, I just have a personal website, Dave cornish.com. Go there. I have a contact form. And potentially soon Im going to start writing more about just general lead generation ideas and strategies. So keep an eye out for that if you want to if youre interested in learning more about the industry.

Phil Mackie 24:48
Super cool. Hey, Dave, thanks so much for chatting with me today.

Dave Cornish 24:52
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Phil Mackie 24:54
Lots of fun. Take care. You too.